Monday, March 21, 2011

Debunking Missionary Mike Mislan's "Problems with a Post-trib Rapture"

Missionary Mike Mislan has said that there are a lot of "problems with the post-trib rapture position." I asked him what they were, and he sent me this list. Here are my responses to each of his "problems."
Missionary Mike Mislan: Here's [sic] a few problems with a post-trib rapture.

1. The trump to announce the rapture is not the same as the trump of Revelation. One is the trump OF GOD (1 Thes 4:16) while the other is the seventh trump OF ANGELS (Rev 8:6) God is not angels nor angels God.
I agree that the rapture doesn’t take place at the 7th trumpet
2. By placing a post trib rapture at this seventh trump, the unknowability and eminent return of Christ is removed (Mk 13:32)
I don’t place a post-trib rapture at the 7th trumpet. Also, the verse that you are quoting to say that Christ’s coming is “imminent” (Mark 13:32) is taken from a passage that pre-tribbers claim is not about the rapture because he just finished saying it was after the tribulation (Mark 13:24). Which one is it?
3. Pre-Tribulationalists have never interpreted the "falling away" of 2nd Thes 2:3, as being the rapture. Instead they have traditionally understood it to mean apostasy as the Greek says (Strongs G646) - a precursor to the rapture. "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith.." (1 Tim 4:1)
How is this a problem with a post-trib rapture?
4. In Rev 20:4-6, this phrase "part in the first resurrection" reveals this first resurrection was in "parts" or "phases" (1 Cor 15:22- 24, Mat 27:52-53) which implies that a previous resurrection of first fruits had preceded it, such as the rapture (1 Thes 5:1-11)
Here you erroneously call the rapture “the firstfruits” and then put 1 Cor 15:22-24 in parenthesis to support your point. Those verses prove that the rapture is NOT the firstfruits! Those verses also prove that the resurrection of believers is only in 2 phases: at Christ’s coming and after the millennium.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

5. The fact that Christ returns WITH His saints to set up His Kingdom (Rev 19:11-14), shows the "rapture" was a previous "part" of this first resurrection.
I agree that he returns with the saints in Revelation 19 to set up his kingdom. The first resurrection (rapture) already took place over 3 years before that. Not a problem for post-trib. God’s wrath being poured out is AFTER the tribulation and AFTER the rapture.
6. Passages where the "Day of Christ" occur do not state a post-trib rapture (Cor 1:8, 1 Cor 5:5, 2 Cor 1:14, Phil 1:6, Phil 1:10, Phil 2:16)
How is this a problem with a post-trib rapture? Do they state a pre-trib rapture? Does ANY verse state a pre-trib rapture? Also, you conveniently removed one mention of the "Day of Christ" (2 Thess 2:1-4) which DOES state a post-trib rapture!
7. In order to prove a post trib rapture, post-tribbers must take all "Day of Christ" passages and improperly link them to Mat 24:29-31 which does not contain this phrase and was in reference to the Jew not the church.
You can’t prove that Matt 24, Mark 13, Luke 17, and Luke 21 are all “in reference only to the Jews.” Didn’t you quote Mark 13 early to prove the rapture of the “church” was imminent? Do you only apply Mark 13 when it is convenient for your doctrine, and at other times you say that it's only for the Jews?
8. The "Day of Christ" which Post-Tribbers assert is the rapture, may also refer to the Judgment Seat of Christ and the awarding of crowns: "Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which.. the righteous judge, SHALL GIVE ME AT THAT DAY... (2 Tim 4:8) " Who shall.. confirm you unto the end, that ye may be BLAMELESS IN THE DAY of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Cor 1:8), Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain… (Phil 2:16) " that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. (Phil 1:10).
Still not a problem for post-trib.
9. While 2 Thes 2:1-4 implies a mid-trib rapture, additional factors must be considered. These are: (a) such phrases as "be not soon shaken" "troubled" and "deceived" along with the context of many believing that "day of Christ is at hand" shows many had falsely believed that Christ had already come and Paul was simply stating that since these things have not yet taken place, they could have not missed His coming, (b) This phrase [that day shall not come] cannot be used as a conclusive proof for it was a clarification by the KJV translators, (c) the positive closing of this chapter indicates the tribulation would be avoided "hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts." (2 Thes 2:16-17), (d) NT Scripture teaches in a Pre-Trib rapture.
You said: “(b) This phrase [that day shall not come] cannot be used as a conclusive proof for it was a clarification by the KJV translators,”

So now the KJV is wrong?! I guess you know more than the translators!”

You also said: “(d) NT Scripture teaches in a Pre-Trib rapture.”

Nice circular reasoning!
10. The order of events as they unfold in chapters 19 and 20 in Rev confirm the traditional view of a pre-tribulation rapture with all subsequent events properly falling into place…
Can you be a little more specific? haha
11. The different features between Christ coming to meet His saints in the air (Lk 17:22-30, Mat 24"36-39, Lk 21:34-36, Eph 5:1-8, Joel 2:31, 1 Thes 5:1-11, Isa 2:12-21, Rev 6:12-17) as compared to His coming at the Judgment of Nations (Rev 19:11-14, 20) reveals two separate and distinct events which cannot take place at the same time…
I don’t believe that his coming in the air is the same as his coming to judge the nations. Strawman.
12. Rom 1:18 and Jn 3:17 make it clear that "the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who.. believeth not the Son" (Rom 1:18, Jn 3:16). Being "justified" we have been saved through this wrath through Him (Eph 5:15)
The tribulation is not God’s wrath.
13. Christ promised His church in Philadelphia that He would keep them from the hour of temptation, and the church is absent during the tribulation (Rev 3:10, chaps 4-22).
Actually, the church at Philadelphia no longer exists so it is already “absent.”
14. Christ loved His church, gave Himself for it (Eph 5:15) and a post-trib rapture is inconsistent with the love that Christ has for His Church (2 Tim 1:72, 1 Thes.5:9, Pet 2:9, Tit 2:13, 1 Tim 6:14, Ja 5:8, Phil 4:5, Jn 1:1-3, 1 Thes 4:17-18)… (11) The purpose of the tribulation is to judge ungodliness, to fulfill God's promises to the Jew, and to prepare Israel for Christ's return (Jer 30:7, Dan 9:20-27), NOT to punish Christ's future bride (Eph 5:27)…
So basically you’re saying that if God loves us we won’t endure tribulation?

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Rom 12:12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

2Co 1:4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

2Co 7:4 Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.

1Th 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

15. Like the word "trinity" or "Deity," while this English word "rapture" is not specifically found in the Bible, it's doctrinal truths are still there.
How is that a problem for post-trib? We believe in the rapture.
16. The early church, our Christian forefathers, most mainline Christian churches in the U.S., as well as protestant churches in Europe all believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture. The post-tribulation-rapture theory is taught by the Catholic Church, and other Eastern Orthodox church cults, and is held by only five percent of evangelical and/or Baptist churches.
There is no evidence of a single human being believing the pre-trib rapture before 1830. In addition, most of the pre-trib believers you just mentioned are also on their way to Hell. Let’s stick with the Bible.


Well, there you have it folks. Those are all the numerous "problems" with the post-tribulation rapture position.


Anonymous said...

Amen! I looked up Mike Mislan at this website
(I guess it's the same Mike Mislan)
There is a link on the site that says how to be saved. This is what one of the links on his supported website said.

"If you are not a Christian, and want to be delivered from the consequence of your sin, which is damnation, then come to the One who loves you. Come to the One who died for sinners (Matt. 11:28). Turn from your sins. Believe in Jesus. Receive Jesus, who is God in flesh, who died and rose from the dead (1 Cor. 15:1-4) as your Lord and Savior (John 1:12). Ask Jesus to forgive you, to come into your heart, and to wash you clean from your sins. Pray to Jesus. Seek Him. Ask Him to save you."

I guess he needs to check his salvation doctrine as well! Thanks for preaching the truth.

Anonymous said...

so tell me how can I be saved if not the way Mike said. I don't want to go to Hell.